What We Talk About When We Talk About Anne Frank is a new serious comedy by Nathan Englander, based on his acclaimed 2011 short story in The New Yorker. It is directed by the director of the Olivier and Tony Award-winning Leopoldstadt, Patrick Marber, and from the producers of 2023’s The White Factory.
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| Caroline Catz in What We Talk About When We Talk About Anne Frank. Photo by Mark Senior |
WHAT A serious new comedy.
WE Two Jewish couples; one secular, the other ultra-Orthodox.
TALK The argument none of them meant to have.
ABOUT Identity, Politics, Parenthood and Getting High.
WHEN Present day Florida.
WE A college dropout who claims to be a ‘Pastafarian’.
TALK Provocative, Hilarious, Painful, Honest.
ABOUT Gaza, Israel, the Holocaust, Nazis, Marriage, Sex.
ANNE A nice Jewish girl…
FRANK is not in this play.
TALK The argument none of them meant to have.
ABOUT Identity, Politics, Parenthood and Getting High.
WHEN Present day Florida.
WE A college dropout who claims to be a ‘Pastafarian’.
TALK Provocative, Hilarious, Painful, Honest.
ABOUT Gaza, Israel, the Holocaust, Nazis, Marriage, Sex.
ANNE A nice Jewish girl…
FRANK is not in this play.
Stage and screen star Caroline Catz plays Debbie in the production. We caught up with Caroline to learn more.
What can you tell me about What We Talk About When We Talk About Anne Frank?
A serious comedy - directed by Patrick Marber
A brave, confrontational, knotty and brilliant play by Nathan Englander adapted from his Pulitzer finalist short story of the same name.
Debbie (who I play) and Phil (played by Joshua Malina) are a secular Jewish couple who live in Florida and their marriage is not in a great place. The play is set over one afternoon when Debbie’s best friend from childhood, the now ultra orthodox Lauren, and her husband Yuri - who live in Israel - arrive for a tentative reunion after 20 years of not seeing each other. Considering all the life changes that they have encountered and the state of the world, their different political perspectives and the crisis in Gaza being the elephant in the room - they drink too much and stray into volatile territory; the kitchen becomes a metaphorical war zone of politics, faith, friendship, identity, parenthood , Gaza, Israel, the Holocaust, Nazis… So, the play begins with everyone on their best behaviour until the point where something happens and from there on in there’s not much that is off limits.
A brave, confrontational, knotty and brilliant play by Nathan Englander adapted from his Pulitzer finalist short story of the same name.
Debbie (who I play) and Phil (played by Joshua Malina) are a secular Jewish couple who live in Florida and their marriage is not in a great place. The play is set over one afternoon when Debbie’s best friend from childhood, the now ultra orthodox Lauren, and her husband Yuri - who live in Israel - arrive for a tentative reunion after 20 years of not seeing each other. Considering all the life changes that they have encountered and the state of the world, their different political perspectives and the crisis in Gaza being the elephant in the room - they drink too much and stray into volatile territory; the kitchen becomes a metaphorical war zone of politics, faith, friendship, identity, parenthood , Gaza, Israel, the Holocaust, Nazis… So, the play begins with everyone on their best behaviour until the point where something happens and from there on in there’s not much that is off limits.
A play that is about what happens when people really have conversations - when you have to stay in the room and face each other in person, not words on a screen or shouting into the echo chamber of social media. Nothing is easy about the topics or the emotions that get excavated in the play, yet it’s a very funny, entertaining, and at the same time important, a play for our times. There are no taboos left untouched and none of the characters are let off the hook. You can feel the tension in the audience - it’s really powerful experiencing all these difficult conversations and debates in a live situation
What first drew you to this role?
Why I wanted to do this play - This is a play that challenges us to have better conversations, to use our imaginations to balance the values of faith against an unfolding humanitarian crisis, making it a deeply personal, uncomfortable play while simultaneously managing to be hilariously funny. A play about love, faith and cruelty.
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Caroline Catz (Debbie), Joshua Malina (Phil), Simon Yadoo (Yerucham) and Dorothea Myer-Bennett (Shoshana). Photo By Mark Senior |
How do you mentally and physically prepare for a role like this?
Its a very physically and emotionally demanding play - it requires all the stamina you can muster and intense concentration. Four of us are onstage all the time talking, shouting, laughing, crying, fighting. We share a dressing room and that helps - we laugh a lot and ending each evening performance with a shot of vodka is a must!
Its a very physically and emotionally demanding play - it requires all the stamina you can muster and intense concentration. Four of us are onstage all the time talking, shouting, laughing, crying, fighting. We share a dressing room and that helps - we laugh a lot and ending each evening performance with a shot of vodka is a must!
How do you approach building and finding the character?
Always the same way - absorbing every aspect of the play as diligently as possible and learning what the writing requires of your character and then mapping those elements, finding them for yourself and bringing them to the role.
Always the same way - absorbing every aspect of the play as diligently as possible and learning what the writing requires of your character and then mapping those elements, finding them for yourself and bringing them to the role.
Alongside extensive work in theatre, you are well known for your TV work but do you have to do anything differently when performing in a theatre rather than for the camera?
In many ways I think its the same process as I have just described/ but technically you have to build the muscle to project the performance - expand the frame if you like - whilst still keeping the integrity of the character, and trying to let the work you do not get mishapen by the audience or your ego - ie playing for the laughs you come to expect etc !
In many ways I think its the same process as I have just described/ but technically you have to build the muscle to project the performance - expand the frame if you like - whilst still keeping the integrity of the character, and trying to let the work you do not get mishapen by the audience or your ego - ie playing for the laughs you come to expect etc !
When did you know that you wanted to perform?
Aged four - no idea why as I was painfully shy. I saw Ronnie Corbet on stage in a pantomime at the opera house in Manchester, they asked for kids to come up on to the stage and I amazed my family by jumping up there. i couldn’t believe these characters were real people. I loved it all - the costumes and the make up and all the lights. It was like entering into a magic realm. I couldn’t believe it was an actual job!
Aged four - no idea why as I was painfully shy. I saw Ronnie Corbet on stage in a pantomime at the opera house in Manchester, they asked for kids to come up on to the stage and I amazed my family by jumping up there. i couldn’t believe these characters were real people. I loved it all - the costumes and the make up and all the lights. It was like entering into a magic realm. I couldn’t believe it was an actual job!
How do you reflect on your career to date?
I’ve been incredibly fortunate and I’ve loved every minute of it!
I’ve been incredibly fortunate and I’ve loved every minute of it!
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| Photo by Mark Senior |
What was the first piece of theatre you've seen that had a big impact on you?
Seeing a season of Brecht plays at The Library Theatre in Manchesters in 1986. I’d never seen anything like it before - incredible performances and very touching.
Seeing a season of Brecht plays at The Library Theatre in Manchesters in 1986. I’d never seen anything like it before - incredible performances and very touching.
What gives you inspiration?
People with enthusiasm and tenacity and determination to make their work - that and resilience generally.
People with enthusiasm and tenacity and determination to make their work - that and resilience generally.
What would you hope an audience member takes away from seeing the show?
That there’s a message - perhaps it is: We need to be more ambitious in our conversations personally and culturally. If we want to make inroads to peace we have to change the culture, find resilience to stay in the room and stand in other people’s shoes and listen.
That there’s a message - perhaps it is: We need to be more ambitious in our conversations personally and culturally. If we want to make inroads to peace we have to change the culture, find resilience to stay in the room and stand in other people’s shoes and listen.
Where can audiences see the production?
Marylebone Theatre - Baker Street. Until 15th February 2025. Come and see us for a shot of vodka after the show!
Marylebone Theatre - Baker Street. Until 15th February 2025. Come and see us for a shot of vodka after the show!
Tickets are available from https://www.marylebonetheatre.com/productions/what-we-talk-about-when-we-talk-about-anne-frank
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