The Historic 1965 Cambridge Union Debate, Reimagined.
Following critically acclaimed runs in New York City, London, Chicago and Los Angeles, the american vicarious’ radically staged production of the historic debate between James Baldwin and William F. Buckley Jr. is reenacted at Wilton’s Music Hall.
The Debate
“Is The American Dream At The Expense Of The American Negro?”
This was the question on February 18, 1965, when an overflow crowd packed the Cambridge Union to witness a historic televised debate between James Baldwin — the leading literary voice of the civil rights movement — and William F. Buckley Jr., America’s most prominent conservative intellectual.
The stage was set for an extraordinary confrontation: Baldwin’s call for a moral revolution in race relations against Buckley’s defence of the American establishment. Their exchange laid bare the deep divisions at the heart of American democracy — divisions whose echoes continue to shape our present.
In restaging this debate, the american vicarious returns Baldwin and Buckley’s words to public conversation through the voices of contemporary artists. Sixty years later, the arguments remain piercing, the stakes undiminished, the questions still demanding our attention.
We sat down with Eric T. Miller to learn more.
Eric, can you share your thoughts on portraying a figure like William F. Buckley Jr.?
Yeah sure! There was trepidation in the beginning, I didn’t know a terrible amount about him and so I was able to focus on his arguments and learn more about him as we went on. His mannerisms and his cadence were a bit flummoxing for a while. How to kind of utilise that because its so distinct. I wanted to make sure I was doing at least a nod to that, especially for people that really knew him well. But I also couldn’t let that get in the way, I wanted to make sure that the arguments were clear and concise without a lot of acting getting in the way. I realised that my job in this debate is to light a fire under people. I want, when you come and see the show and I look you in the eyes and say these things, when I see that fire light under someone who clearly wants to punch me in the face, I know that I’m doing my job. And I know that I am offending them hopefully in a way that will be a catalyst in the future. That’s very intriguing as an actor!
Yeah sure! There was trepidation in the beginning, I didn’t know a terrible amount about him and so I was able to focus on his arguments and learn more about him as we went on. His mannerisms and his cadence were a bit flummoxing for a while. How to kind of utilise that because its so distinct. I wanted to make sure I was doing at least a nod to that, especially for people that really knew him well. But I also couldn’t let that get in the way, I wanted to make sure that the arguments were clear and concise without a lot of acting getting in the way. I realised that my job in this debate is to light a fire under people. I want, when you come and see the show and I look you in the eyes and say these things, when I see that fire light under someone who clearly wants to punch me in the face, I know that I’m doing my job. And I know that I am offending them hopefully in a way that will be a catalyst in the future. That’s very intriguing as an actor!
What drew you to this role?
Christopher McElroen, the director, drew me to it. Whenever he has something that he’s working on I know its going to be interesting, I know its going to be unconventional and thought provoking. The more that I studied this debate and learned about, to be a part of it, and to bring this debate to life for people who aren’t familiar with it, was really intriguing and I hope that it continues to test people and make them really think about what they think they know.
Christopher McElroen, the director, drew me to it. Whenever he has something that he’s working on I know its going to be interesting, I know its going to be unconventional and thought provoking. The more that I studied this debate and learned about, to be a part of it, and to bring this debate to life for people who aren’t familiar with it, was really intriguing and I hope that it continues to test people and make them really think about what they think they know.
How do you prepare for a debate that resonates so deeply with contemporary issues?
There’s not a lot of preparation in terms of what I’m doing. My job is to get up there and say these words and make them resonate with people. The fact that it resonates so deeply with contemporary issues is kind of a byproduct of that. I just try to make the words come alive, make the arguments come alive. Seeing rage is helpful to me, because I think you should be angry at what Buckley is saying. To think about how it connects with contemporary issues isn’t as helpful as an actor, I just try to say the words and not get in the way and hope that it effects people.
There’s not a lot of preparation in terms of what I’m doing. My job is to get up there and say these words and make them resonate with people. The fact that it resonates so deeply with contemporary issues is kind of a byproduct of that. I just try to make the words come alive, make the arguments come alive. Seeing rage is helpful to me, because I think you should be angry at what Buckley is saying. To think about how it connects with contemporary issues isn’t as helpful as an actor, I just try to say the words and not get in the way and hope that it effects people.
How do you physically and mentally prepare for a run in a show like this?
At this point we’ve been doing it for five years, almost six years, and so now its kind of in my bones. It’s so in my bones that I don’t do a ton of preparation. I try to get my rest, I know that last that half hour is going to be demanding for me at the end of the night. So I try to reserve my energy, I try to make sure I’m cognitively with it and ready to go come curtain. But its not a physically demanding so per se, I obviously need to keep my vocal chords nice and lubricated but aside from that I just run the monologue every day, try to find not new things but maybe make sure things don’t get too stale, but aside from that it’s a unique experience. It’s unlike a lot of plays that I’ve done.
At this point we’ve been doing it for five years, almost six years, and so now its kind of in my bones. It’s so in my bones that I don’t do a ton of preparation. I try to get my rest, I know that last that half hour is going to be demanding for me at the end of the night. So I try to reserve my energy, I try to make sure I’m cognitively with it and ready to go come curtain. But its not a physically demanding so per se, I obviously need to keep my vocal chords nice and lubricated but aside from that I just run the monologue every day, try to find not new things but maybe make sure things don’t get too stale, but aside from that it’s a unique experience. It’s unlike a lot of plays that I’ve done.
How much are you looking forward to sharing this journey with Arnell Powell, who plays James Baldwin?
Very excited! We just actually had our first readthrough the other day and he was extraordinary. I’ve been doing it with another actor for a long time and I’ve gotten used to how he does it but its interesting to see someone else come in and breathe new life into it and what resonates with them and how they can bring themselves to it. Already just in a Zoom reading with Arnell, to see that was really inspiring and exciting and it made me come alive in a way I maybe hadn’t for a while so I am really excited to share a stage with him. He’s a great actor and I really look forward to it.
Very excited! We just actually had our first readthrough the other day and he was extraordinary. I’ve been doing it with another actor for a long time and I’ve gotten used to how he does it but its interesting to see someone else come in and breathe new life into it and what resonates with them and how they can bring themselves to it. Already just in a Zoom reading with Arnell, to see that was really inspiring and exciting and it made me come alive in a way I maybe hadn’t for a while so I am really excited to share a stage with him. He’s a great actor and I really look forward to it.
The production highlights the civility of discourse during a time of high tension. How do you see that reflected in today’s society?
I don’t, that’s the problem. I don’t see this level of civility anywhere. And I’m part of the problem, I’m very left leaning, very staunch liberal, and I find myself shouting people down who I disagree with or not willing to hear what they say. I need to work on that, we all need to work on that, the only way we can move somewhere is if we have a civil discourse. And right now it is completely absent in our political system. A debate like this would evolve into shouting within three minutes and we wouldn’t hear any of these points. No matter how much you disagree with them, you have to sit and listen to them. No matter how much you disagree with Buckley, James Baldwin has to sit there and listen to this, and it must have been a horrendous experience, but you have to. And Buckley, same thing, i’m sure he disagree with a lot of things that Baldwin said, but he had to sit there and listen to it. And perhaps a nugget got through and changed his perspective, and vice versa, that’s why its important and its not present today. That is part of the reason we find ourselves in the situation we are in.
I don’t, that’s the problem. I don’t see this level of civility anywhere. And I’m part of the problem, I’m very left leaning, very staunch liberal, and I find myself shouting people down who I disagree with or not willing to hear what they say. I need to work on that, we all need to work on that, the only way we can move somewhere is if we have a civil discourse. And right now it is completely absent in our political system. A debate like this would evolve into shouting within three minutes and we wouldn’t hear any of these points. No matter how much you disagree with them, you have to sit and listen to them. No matter how much you disagree with Buckley, James Baldwin has to sit there and listen to this, and it must have been a horrendous experience, but you have to. And Buckley, same thing, i’m sure he disagree with a lot of things that Baldwin said, but he had to sit there and listen to it. And perhaps a nugget got through and changed his perspective, and vice versa, that’s why its important and its not present today. That is part of the reason we find ourselves in the situation we are in.
What was the first piece of theatre you remember having a big impact on you?
For me personally, I was in high school and none of my family were in the business so I thought all plays were Shakespeare or musicals, and my senior year of high school and my drama teacher gave me The Zoo Story by Edward Albee and I had to play Jerry, and I did not know that plays could be like that. It absolutely blew my doors off and I immediately realised there was nothing else I wanted to do. And then seeing productions, when I was in college in London I remember seeing All My Sons at the National Theatre and I saw Lori Metcalf and when the information comes out that he husband is responsible for the death of her son she puked onstage. It was one of the most powerful choices I have ever seen, I immediately knew exactly how she felt about the situation and it took my breath away. That whole production was incredible. It showed me what this kind of thing can be, and made me want to work harder and stride further and do what these people were doing. It was so extraordinary and affecting and I was in.
For me personally, I was in high school and none of my family were in the business so I thought all plays were Shakespeare or musicals, and my senior year of high school and my drama teacher gave me The Zoo Story by Edward Albee and I had to play Jerry, and I did not know that plays could be like that. It absolutely blew my doors off and I immediately realised there was nothing else I wanted to do. And then seeing productions, when I was in college in London I remember seeing All My Sons at the National Theatre and I saw Lori Metcalf and when the information comes out that he husband is responsible for the death of her son she puked onstage. It was one of the most powerful choices I have ever seen, I immediately knew exactly how she felt about the situation and it took my breath away. That whole production was incredible. It showed me what this kind of thing can be, and made me want to work harder and stride further and do what these people were doing. It was so extraordinary and affecting and I was in.
What keeps you inspired?
A lot of things. I’m inspired right now by what is going on in the wake of Renee Good’s murder in Minneapolis, and the community that is springing up there and fighting the ICE officers. I’m inspired by that. I’m inspired by art. I just watched Singing In The Rain for the first time the other day and I was inspired by that and the performances in that movie. I’m inspired by One Battle After Another and the performances in that movie. I’m excited to see Marty Supreme. I’m inspired by my kids every day, I have a seven year old and a three year old and their ability to say yes to a make believe situation and say yes and run with it as far as we can go, teaches me a lot about acting. Because they’re not watching themselves and wondering if its good, if its cool, if its interesting, they’re just doing it. And that is a big thing that actors need to remember; if you are not sure of what you’re doing on that stage you lose us, we’re not with you. But if you’re sure, if you’re absolutely bed rock in what you’re doing, we can’t take our eyes off you. So I try to find inspiration everywhere, I try to find it here in going to the Barbican, in places like that. Inspiration can be found everywhere if you’re looking for it.
A lot of things. I’m inspired right now by what is going on in the wake of Renee Good’s murder in Minneapolis, and the community that is springing up there and fighting the ICE officers. I’m inspired by that. I’m inspired by art. I just watched Singing In The Rain for the first time the other day and I was inspired by that and the performances in that movie. I’m inspired by One Battle After Another and the performances in that movie. I’m excited to see Marty Supreme. I’m inspired by my kids every day, I have a seven year old and a three year old and their ability to say yes to a make believe situation and say yes and run with it as far as we can go, teaches me a lot about acting. Because they’re not watching themselves and wondering if its good, if its cool, if its interesting, they’re just doing it. And that is a big thing that actors need to remember; if you are not sure of what you’re doing on that stage you lose us, we’re not with you. But if you’re sure, if you’re absolutely bed rock in what you’re doing, we can’t take our eyes off you. So I try to find inspiration everywhere, I try to find it here in going to the Barbican, in places like that. Inspiration can be found everywhere if you’re looking for it.
What do you hope audiences take away from the show?
I hope that they leave realising that systemic racism, institutional racism, is a real thing, and William F. Buckley was in our living rooms for forty year on Firing Line, he was a trusted financial advisor of Regan, he ran for Mayor of New York, he was a very important figure in our nation building over the last sixty years and he’s still celebrated. And a man who can say what he says in this debate and believes these things, to be put in this position of power, to be put in a position where he shapes American culture and systems, we need to question these things. We need to look at these people for who they are and for what they’ve said, because that’s all you have to go on. Anyone who can say these things to be put in a position of power is alarming and we need to take that more seriously than we do. I also hope that people take a level of civility of this discourse and try to use it going forward. To not shout each other down, no matter how much you hate to hear these words. It’s important to hear these things and challenge them and I hope that people look at this, and look up the facts that Buckley says in the speech and test them. Challenge it and hopefully it can prepare you to have these arguments in the future.
I hope that they leave realising that systemic racism, institutional racism, is a real thing, and William F. Buckley was in our living rooms for forty year on Firing Line, he was a trusted financial advisor of Regan, he ran for Mayor of New York, he was a very important figure in our nation building over the last sixty years and he’s still celebrated. And a man who can say what he says in this debate and believes these things, to be put in this position of power, to be put in a position where he shapes American culture and systems, we need to question these things. We need to look at these people for who they are and for what they’ve said, because that’s all you have to go on. Anyone who can say these things to be put in a position of power is alarming and we need to take that more seriously than we do. I also hope that people take a level of civility of this discourse and try to use it going forward. To not shout each other down, no matter how much you hate to hear these words. It’s important to hear these things and challenge them and I hope that people look at this, and look up the facts that Buckley says in the speech and test them. Challenge it and hopefully it can prepare you to have these arguments in the future.
Debate: Baldwin Vs Buckley runs at Wilton's Music Hall from Tuesday 3rd until Saturday 7th February 2026. Tickets are availalbe from https://wiltons.org.uk/whats-on/debate-baldwin-vs-buckley/
Post a Comment